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chance to reclaim the momentum from president obama. both candidates will be squaring off against debate stand-ins, 2004 presidential candidate john kerry will stand in in the role of mitt romney and ohio senator rob portman will star as president obama. he also did it in john mccain's 2008 campaign. ahead of next week's debates, both sides have been lowering expectations. >> the president is, obviously, a very eloquent, gifted speaker. he'll do just fine. >> mitt romney has an advantage because he's been through 20 debates in the primaries oefrt the last year. >> barack obama is a very effective debater. >> we know governor romney is practicing for months. i think the invasion of normandy took less preparation than he's putting into the debates. >> i'm joined by the president of progress and former obama white house adviser and also with us is robert trainum. nera, you helped with hillary clinton's debate preps and you worked robert with with rick santorum and president bush. let's get to the heart of it, robert. both sides lowering expectations, but realistically how important is this
for the arab spring. what he points out is that is a false view of history. that the obama administration both with tunisia supported ben ali or was indifferent to him, to what he was doing to his own people. with regard to egypt, they supported mubarak. hillary clinton called him a great democrat or whatever she said. in fact, it was wikileaks that brought out the documents in early december about tunisia that really show the corruption of the ben ali regime and has been given credit by the tunisian government for helping encourage that arab spring. he tries to correct the record on the obama administration somehow putting itself ford is taking credit. the people in the middle east, they know what both the obama administration did or did not do and what has been done for a long time by the united states and middle east. with regard to this other issue revealed yesterday by wikileaks as well as a number of journalists, the designation arguably that wikileaks is an enemy of the united states and julian assange is an enemy. but that service in a series of freedom of information act documents in
, ohio, is so important both to president obama and mitt romney campaigning there this afternoon. and there's more of a backdrop than just the early autumn trees. a brand new quinnipiac/cbs "new york times" poll has the president a full ten points ahead of romney in ohio. 53% to 43%. let's begin with cnn white house correspondent dan lothian. >> reporter: joe, even though a new poll shows the president with a double digit lead in ohio, mr. obama continues to push hard in the state. it's a huge priority for the campaign according to a top aide. by our count the president has visited ohio at least 13 times so far this year. this time ahead of early voting, which by the w begins next tuesday. now, today the president was again selling his policies and his record in a state he says has benefitted from the auto bailout. he talked about the thousands of jobs created but also hit china and went after his gop opponent. >> he's been talking tough on china. he says he's going to take the fight to them. he's going to go after these cheaters. and i've got to admit, that message is better tha
is behind. polls show he lags president obama both nationwide and in key battleground states where the races are either tight or obama holds a clear edge. heightening the urgency, early voting is underway in 30 states, including wisconsin, iowa, new hampshire, virginia, and north carolina, and it starts tuesday in ohio and florida. the romney campaign looks to find its footing in the next 37 days. that's next with alex castellano, dana bash, and celinda lake. a little bit more vanilla? this is great! [ male announcer ] at humana, we believe there's never been a better time to share your passions... because the results... are you having fun doing this? yeah. that's a very nice cake! [ male announcer ] well, you can't beat them. [ giggles ] ohh! you got something huh? whoa... [ male announcer ] humana understands the value of spending time together that's a lot of work getting that one in! let's go see the birdies. [ male announcer ] one on one, sharing what you know. let's do it grandpa. that's why humana agents will sit down with you, to listen and understand what's important to y
campaign. president obama and his republican challenger, mitt romney, both favor expanding charter schools, support standardized tests and want more accountability from teachers and principals. but the two men have significant disagreements. >> i think some of the main differences between governor romney and president obama when it comes to education come in the area of school choice. governor romney sees a really robust rule for school choice and school improvement whereas president obama like a lot of democrats has been skeptical of vouchers. >> reporter: romney supports taking federal dollars for educating special needs and low income families, known as title i funds and giving them directly to parents in the form of vouchers. although romney avoids using that word. >> for the first time in history federal education funds will be linked to the student so that parents can send their child to any public or charter school of their choice. >> reporter: the obama administration is staunchly opposed. why not expand vouchers? why not give parents more choices? >> the goal can't be to remove on
in libya. ed henry is our chief white house correspondent and toking president obama. both men really duking it out on foreign policy all of a sudden. >> that's right. one city, two candidates and two different visions. it's clear that mitt romney is charging that the president is sitting on the side line, not active enough in the middle east. the president, as you noted, his suggestion is look, you can't dictate the facts on the ground in the middle east. some of this has to play out. where we see that most acutely is on iran where mitt romney is suggesting we should be more aggressive, maybe use military action. the president today said give sanctions some more time to work. although he added this caveat. >> that's why a coalition of countries is holding their iranian government accountable. that's why the united states will do what we must to prevent iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. >> do what we must suggests possible military action down the road. today iran tried to flex its military muscles by saying it has a new drone that can travel what's significant? about that means i
, 47% disclosure they didn't want to disclose. let's listen. >> president obama and i both care about poor and middle class families. the difference is, my policies will make things better for them. we shouldn't measure compassion by how many people are on welfare. we should measure compassion by how many people are able to get off welfare and get a good paying job. >> who measures compassion by how many people are on welfare? who is the story man they're trying to argue with? >> they are trying to make a caricature out of president obama calling him the food stamp president. this reminds me of the story where the woman comes home, finds her husband in bed with his best friend and he says, honey, it's not as bad as it looks. you have the 47 -- >> is that a joke or true life story? >> i'm sure it's happened once or twice. you have the 47% remark with romney speaking and other people have said it, not just me, with complete conviction and passion, telling people what he really thinks. and then you have this guy sitting in front of a camera, reading a script. you have to ask, okay, do th
stamps. president obama and i both care about poor and middle-class families. the difference is my policies will make things better for them. we shouldn't measure compassion by how many people are on welfare. we should measure compassion by how many people are able to get off welfare and get a good paying job. mylan will create twelve million new jobs over the next four years helping lift families out of poverty and strengthening the middle-class. i'm mitt romney and i approve this message because we can't afford another four years like the last four years. ♪ ♪ like the last four years. >> s simultaneous. has it? who do they give it to? >> toudown. >> i've never seen anything like in all my years of football. >> who w would have thought that the players d fans would be cheering nfl referees? what a country. >> it is our great country, and group --tellll you, any referees who were kept out srtsightedns and theishness and greed of lackeynd there goodell, havemr. cheering for them scott walker, the unn-busting govnor of wisconsin, and paul ryan, the busting ce-presidential -- he
obama and i both care about poor and middle-class families. the difference is, my policies will make things better for them. we shouldn't measure compassion by how many people are on welfare. we should measure compassion by how many people are able to get off welfare and get a good-paying job. >> i think that's a strong ad for mitt romney. the question is why he wasn't playing that two or three months ago. >> it is a good ad and you're right. there's a larger dynamic in ohio that actually is true nationally, too, which is you have some economic improvement, you have -- there's a sort of consumer confidence number that came out, highest since february, the housing market that's starting to actually show real upticks nationally and the distressed markets, so it's going to be hard for mitt romney to go around selling the voice of gloom. that's something people don't want to hear. they're changing tactics. the compassion idea, something else, compassion and mitt romney , not a natural fit but they have to try something new. i think, i would be interested to see if they come out with a ha
today. both president obama and mitt romney reviewing notes and strategying with their teams ahead of wednesday's face-off in denver. one of three that have the potential to alter the court of history. doug brinkley is joining me now, doug, good to see you thank you for joining us. is this a do no harm debate in or does each candidate have something to prove on wednesday? >> barack obama he and hiss choice would haven't the debate. after all today's polls are up nine points in ohio. it looks like these debates are just the rapids the president has to go through. if he didn't have them, it would be fair sailing. so for mitt romney, these debates are essential. he's going to have to show that he's presidential. so far when he went to the olympic and maybe gaffed and he stumbled with that 44%. they're not sure they can live with the guy for four years so mitt romney has to really be the one that comes out the winner. he's got to score. >> there was a time between the famous kennedy-nixon tapes that there were no televised debates. why are they considered so vital now? >> well, the ken
is mitt romney trying. >> romney: president obama and i both care about poor and middle class families, the difference is my policies will make things better for them. we shouldn't measure compassion by how many people are on welfare. we should measure compassion by how many people are able to get off of welfare and get a better job. >> cenk: problem number 2 if you have to start your ad by talking about how great your opponent is, you are in trouble. >> i'm not a witch. i'm nothing you have heard. i'm you. i'll go to washington, and do what you would do. i'm christine o'donnell, and i approve this message. >> cenk: on-camera ads are really dicey. what is point number 3? when you are at the bottom of the barrel how do you go below the bottom of the barrel? you go to implied and obvious racism. watch this. >> let me tell you what the big problem with this president is in my opinion. he is absolutely lazy, and detached from his job. >> cenk: okay. lazy black guy. now if it's just sununu, you might say it's just sununu. i don't remember him calling bush that. george w.
. >>> president obama is mitt romney both focusing on ohio today as a new poll shows the president's lead is growing in that battleground state. >>> and we'll soon know what company will be making the repairs to the washington monument following last year's earthquake. we'll have much more on those stories throughout the morning. first, good morning to you. i'm eun yang. >> good morning. i'm aaron gilchrist. it is wednesday, september 26th. take a look outside with us, if you will, as we approach 5:29. i can tell you the clouds are out there, maybe a little rain. warmer to start the day too. i hope i've left a little something for veronica to say. >> always the fine details of getting it right. >> right. >> okay, yeah. rain for today. but we've got a better chance for the afternoon, for the evening rush than we do this morning. and even then we're talking about a very small chanls of rain. a little bit of wet weather expected for today. as aaron gilchrist just said, he's an honorary meteorologist for a hot minute. clouds out here right now with a little bit of a breeze. we're going to see
, national correspondent. nice work. thanks for that report. >>> moving on. both president obama and mitt romney are expected to speak with prime minister benjamin netanyahu, following the leader's impassioned plea for action against iran. netanyahu tried to make as clear as possible why he believes iran's nuclear program must be stopped sooner rather than later. >> a red line should be drawn right here. before, before iran completes the second stage of nuclear enrichment necessary to make a bomb. >> with me now, msnbc special correspondent, tom brokaw. you have seen a lot of u.n. speeches. >> jon stewart teed it up saying it looks like a wiley coyote cartoon. this is a serious issue. seems the way the prime minister presented it before the united nations. >> had an american president did something like this, what would the reaction be? i am sort of shell shocked. >> take the two candidates, think about what they would have said if president obama had done something like that. >> george w. bush. >> from the right or george w. bush, or if mitt romney made a speech and held up that kind of
it because that add news people and has an impact. i have seen both obama and romney suddenly tweaked or change language, or drop language that were called out by fact checkers because ultimately there was a decision that are that it doesn't really mean that much to us if we fix this. it will get less greece if we just tweak it a bit or change it on the margins. but the key thing that moves voters such as he apologizes for america, or obama with a ridiculous thing about the savings from the wars, which he says, and the same breath criticizes george w. bush for running wars on the credit card, he will say those like almost 1 cents after another without any since he is contradicting himself. there is polling there that says that's an effective line. it moves voters eric so it doesn't matter what the actual facts are. so that's, that's when -- >> i think fact checkers come to this with their own sets of thoughts and ideas and backgrounds. and any since he is trying to redefine what a fact is. pretty saying there are no objective facts, that it's just someone else's opinion about what we
for romney. strategists for both parties in florida agree obama is ahead in the state and the battle over met care is helping make inroads with seniors. as nancy reported, the president is doing better with blue collar white voters in ohio and doing better on the economy of the economy. it's whaepg is mitt romney is having to play defense with his own voting group. the time he has to spend shoring them up is time he's not spending getting swing voters. >> pelley: john, polls that are taken about this point in september sometimes predict the winner and sometimes they don't. in 2008, we had obama over mccain at about this point, but in the year 2000, we had gore over bush about this point. how predict i.v. are these polls six weeks out. >> reporter: if we go all the way back to 1952, eisenhower's first election, the vast majority of the time the candidates who was ahead of the polls ended up winning in the end. presidents john kennedy, ronald reagan, and george w. bush were all tied or behind, scott, and they pulled it out in the end. >> pelley: as in politics, things can change pretty quickly
john mccain and barack obama, which was this date four years ago, the focus was the war. in fact, both wars. >> do you, senator mccain, much has been said about the lessons of vietnam. what do you see as the lessons of iraq? >> i think the lessons of iraq are very clear that you cannot have a failed strategy. thanks to this great general david pa trm pa tray yous, they succeeding and winning in iraq. >> whether we should have gone into the war in the first place. six years ago i stood up and opposed this war. we hadn't finished the job in afghanistan. we hadn't caught bin laden. we hadn't put al qaeda to rest. and as a consequence, i thought that it was going to be a distraction. now, senator mccain and president bush had a very different judgment. >> so that was this date, 40 days out from the election in '08 and 40 days out from the election in '04. in '04 the campaign was consumed with the debate over at least one of our wars. 40 days out from the election in '08, in the midst of the financial meltdown the campaign was consumed with both of the wars. now it's 2012 and we're 40 days
fans, too. >> on the campaign trail today a field of screams. president obama and mitt romney both fighting to be heard today. >> i'm s.e. cupp. four years ago it was about the financial crisis. >> i'm toure, and vulnerability scares me. today we'll have a frank talk about vulnerability. i feel scared already. >> all that plus talk about putting yourself out there. i'll show you the precise moment when mitt romney lost the presidential camcampaign, and i not what you think. you're in
to have a military that's so strong no one wants to test it. you see, you want to -- >> president obama and mitt romney both making the case to veterans in virginia today. the present talking about ending our trillioll war eaventually, and his opponent talking about ronald reagan. joining us now, john stanton, washington bureau chief at "buzz ed" and it's been way too long since we've had you on show. congratulations on your move,vy way, how is "buzz feed"? >> it's awe? >> one of the things y did nd cntis greyhound bused down there, and sort of went out of your way to talk to regular on the street folks who were not necessarily getting, having their opinions plundered by pundits. when you're doing sort of "man on the street" talking to people about polics, do people ever talk about the wars? >> thedo. tag,tirl was in savannah and talking to church people that were feeding the working poor and homeless people. there were a lot of veterans there. some of the people i talked to on the bus were veterans. they feel like their plight as the working poor in this inoue areonis really president
both obama to go down as they're going up. >> all right, mike. and apparently you've been deputized by "sports illustrated." you're here to reveal the new cover of "sports illustrated." >> what? >> there's a lot of good news, good buzz inside the beltway. it's on the cover of "sports illustrated" this week. they're calling washington/baltimore america's unlikely new sports capital. seth davis, lanny son is writing in "sports illustrated" about the beltway as the new sports super power. we have the washington nationals tied with the reds for the best team in baseball. we have great hope for the redskins with this quarterback, rg3 which "sports illustrated" compares him to president obama. >> i hope he's better than that. >> yeah. it's definitely a moment. i can tell you as a yankee fan, the orioles are frightening at this point. >> aren't they something? >> mike allen, thanks so much. >> have a good week. >> a point of personal privilege here. >> please. >> i want to hear about one story today and one story only. and i want to know what's going on in kansas. mika, do we have a kansas
at about 9:30 a.m. they have obama and romney both up 46% nationwide. with leanders, 48% a piece. the swing state tracking poll is tied as well at 46%. this is from rasmussen reports. scott, a republican in colorado springs. hello, scott. what do you think about the campaign media coverage so far? caller: it's a joke. they are all totally biased. the thing that really gets me is that you have these various news view" andbama on 'the letterman. he won't go on fox. he avoids the tough ques tions. it's just as bad here in colorado as anywhere else. i hope when they have the debate in denver that they ask the tough questions. people need answers. this foreign-policy mass, -- mess, he always watns transparency. host: you're in a swing state. are you seeing a lot of commercials? caller: i go back and forth between denver and the suburbs. when they go out and do the polls, they're finding out that they're asking more democrats and coming back with a 10 point lead. from what i've seen, they're trying to go back to the 2008 turn out. host: that was got from colorado springs. up next in oregon on the
earlier on, some people have said that barack obama is someone who both represented that kind of gary hart vote as well as the jesse jackson vote, uniting these two things. it became very, very formidable. now, the question of will you ever have a republican primary candidate who can unite those two sensibilities, and arguably george w. bush did that. now, the problem romney faces is that initially he had a tax plan that was let's just keep the bush rates in place, totally kind of marginal change. then he felt rick santorum might defeat him in guam, so he released a plan that was designed to appeal to "the wall street journal" editorial pawj. something that doesn't seem to have moved primary voters, but when you look at their sensibility and what they thought they had to accomplish, that's what they decided they had to do. you can imagine someone else saying, well, gosh, let's do a really big child tax credit and then let's do all these other things that'll essentially get a lot of these urban, socially-liberal, upper middle class voters in states we're not going to win regardless to pay s
-- and this gets updated daily, about 9:30 in the morning -- and they president obama and mitt romney both at 46% nationwide. and when leaners are included, it's tied at 48% apiece. and the swing state daily tracking poll, they also have this, and they have that tied as well, obama 46%, romney 46%. again, this is from rasmussenreports.com. scott is a republican in colorado springs. hi, scott. caller: how you doing? host: good. what do you think about the campaign media coverage so far? caller: it's a joke. i flip through the channels, and they are totally biased. the thing that really gets me is you have romney going on, the different outlets, but yet obama, he's going on "the view" and david letterman, but he won't come on fox. it seems like he really, really avoids the tough questions, and he really can't answer the questions on the economy. i'm here in colorado, and it's just as bad here as it is anywhere else. i hope during this election that they'll have the debates here in denver so they can really ask the tough questions. people need answers, and this mess, they've proven to everybody --
, with the topic itself or the time. and the question to both of you is, president obama was criticized for his huge until that comment. over how much credit we deserve in america. that's what we want to discuss for the next eight or nine minutes. you cannot, i want to give each one minute and i encourage you to share ideas and talk about it. ms. laura ann mclane kuster, wel start with you. >> well, i absolutely believe that it is the private sector to create jobs. i have been in the private sector for the last 25 years and since the last campaign, i have created my own business that we have found strategy for nonprofit fundraising. but i believe that the government does create an environment for businesses to grow. that is what tax policy is all about. the tax breaks that congressman charlie bass has voted for her, it was encouraging the production of fossil fuels and energy. i believe that what we need to do is give incentives, such as growing the economy here at home and the incentive for shipping jobs overseas. i think we need to end the uncertainty and it flows from the deficit. we have to
it is. other elements added as allowing obama to hold both among those women. that also shapes the issue makes -- mix. >> immigration is not an issue that is a core based republican conservative issue. there is a sizable minority group within the party who cares deeply about it. why has it become the position of the party when in fact it is a huge ingrowing motor block for whom it is an important issue. >> we might have different views about this. when it is framed, all that matters is are you going to build a fence? i also think it is about how are these things represented. and what you obligated to say when you're pinned down. do you believe that enforcing these laws that seems problematic? the idea the dream act is that these are the good kids. it does not mean you're a bad kid if you're not in a community college or to got in trouble when you were a teenager. there's something very disingenuous about the debate we have a round this book that is because advocates want to structure the debate in a certain way. i do think that advocates have structure of the conversation very ostentatio
of muscling on both sides. i think it affected his relationship with barack obama for the first few years of his presidency, but i think now that they've sorted things out between themselves and i think he said, look, he loves being center stage. the clinton global initiative is huge. it's attended by almost as many world leaders as the u.n. general assembly. you have a guy who really isn't president but for all intents and purposes is a very influential world leader. somebody said to me, who needs who more? does barack obama need bill clinton more or does bill clinton need barack obama more? i think they need each other. bill clinton, the inflew enser. i think for barack obama there's no more effective, articulate defender of his right to be re-elected right now than bill clinton. >> okay. >> so along the same lines is a new poll, quinnipiac, "new york times" poll that shows mr. obama is up by 10 points in the state of ohio over mitt romney. is that for the efforts of obama's great campaigning or does it have more to do with bill clinton and that widely admired speech he gave at the dnc?
.j. lang got fed by the refs. even president obama tweeted. nfl fans on both sides of the aisle hope the revs lockout is settled soon. this is after a disputed field goal gave the baltimore ravens a one point win over the new england patriots and a series of botched calls and misapplied rules that have driven coaches, players, and fans crazy. all this because of a labor dispute between the nfl and its regular referees that began when the league locked out the refs in june. >> reporter: the referees want more money asking more than the nfl's offer to increase the salaries from $149,000 a year to $189,000. compare that to the median nfl players salary, $770,000 a year. it's important to remember the average nfl playing career is only 3.5 years and most of the refs have other careers so these aren'tful-time jobs for them. >> reporter: the nfl wants to make the refs full time and to add more refs so the average referee would make less money. they want to move them to from a pension system to a 401k. but in the context of a business that brings in $9.5 billion a year, seems solvable. red
that will say in the first two years of the obama administration, there was democratic control of both houses of congress, and the president had a hard time getting his legislative agenda passed. caller: it's because the filibuster in the senate, i mean, when you need 60 votes and the democrats only had 59, so he had a hard time getting even healthcare through. host: all right, paul, we're going to move to andy on our line from independents, calling from florida. caller: sorry, i'm calling from south carolina. host: ok, andy is calling from south carolina where. in south carolina, andy? caller: columbia. host: ok. are you in favor of divided government or one party? caller: well, i'm not so sure i'm in favor of either one, unless -- except if divided government is going to give us what it's given us now and nothing gets done, nothing gets passed. we got a credit rating downgraded because one party says my way or the highway. that's not good governance. it's not -- there's no such thing as my way or the highway. we all have to compromise, you know, in a marriage, the husband doesn't get everyt
to "hardball" and to the "sideshow." well, the campaigns for both mitt romney and president obama are trying to tamp expectations leading into tomorrow's debate while playing up the debating skills, of course, of the other candidate. one of romney's biggest surrogates went a bit rogue this weekend on "the daily show." take note. >> here is the great news for republicans, we have a candidate who is going to do extraordinarily well on wednesday night. >> oh, my [ bleep ], we got a runner, we got a runner! apparently only chris christie did not get the memo his party sucks at this. >> it's the restart of the campaign and i think you will see the numbers move back in another direction and the whole race will turn upside down. >> what you are you doing? if romney fails to meet those heavy expectations, he's going to lose the general election and that's going to leave open 26 -- oh. the jersey is strong in this one. >> in political language the governor there was sandbagging. actually he was sandbagging. he should have been low balling, that's playing up the skills of the other guy claiming you ha
this morning, president obama is addressing the united nations as the campaign spotlight turns to international affairs. both he and republican rival mitt romney speak at the clinton global initiative's annual meeting today in nearly back-to-back speeches. hot topics for both. the u.s. response to anti-american protests across the muslim world, and we'll have more on this coming up. >>> now let's head to wall street and cnbc's courtney reagan at the new york stock exchange. do tell us more about the global bacon shortage on the way because al is very concerned this morning. he can't function. >> reporter: as are a number of others. this could be very true. if you're a bacon lover, start hoarding it now. according to britain's national pig association, a worldwide shortage of pork and bacon next year is unavoidable. it's a result of the drought that hit much of the country this year which damaged the crops used to feed the pigs, so the group predicts that the number of slaughtered pigs could fall by 10% in the second half of next year, and that could cause prices to double in some areas. natalie
weather. savannah? >> all right, al. president obama, governor romney both in new york city today to speak at the clinton global initiative, and the president will also deliver an address to the united nations general assembly. governor romney will drop by nbc's education nation summit. chuck todd is nbc's political director, chief white house correspondent. you come with your telestrator today. >> i do, i do. >> let's talk about the state of the union in terms of the battleground map. we know 270 is the magic number. >> right. >> where do things stand? >> right now we have the president at 243 here, and what that means is we've got states adding up 243 electoral votes. it 70, of course, is the magic number. what we've recently moved was the state of iowa, and that put him at 243. what's interesting here, savannah. he now needs only a couple of states, a couple of the big states, big three that i talk about all the time, ohio, florida, virginia, just a couple of ways and he gets over the finish line. >> we talk about ohio. it's usually a bellwether, a couple of scenarios to run through her
in his new appeal to the middle class. >> president obama and i both care abouter poor and middle class families the difference is my policies will make things better for them. >> he goes on to say his policies would create 12 million jobs over the next four years. but in fact checkers say those jobs would happen no matter who is president. americans for job security is out warning voters in six swing states about the consequences of reelecting the president. and with todd akin officially staying in the race claire mccaskill is gearing up her campaign attacking his legitimate rape marks. and we have to show you thissed a from new hampshire libertarian party. the ad shows him taking on a horde of democrat and republican zombies and yelling we are not a mindless society. he does star in theed a but his campaign didn't pay for or produce the spot. more bill after the break. stay with us. ♪ trickle down does not work. in romney's world, cars get the elevator and the workers get the shaft. that is a whole bunch of bunk. the powerful may steal an election, but they can
Search Results 0 to 49 of about 96 (some duplicates have been removed)